Not everyone is Perfect.....

don't worry either way; heaven doesn't exist.

Posted by: jamezmon | 04 April 2005

Even the Catholic Church doesn't teach that only Catholics can go to heaven. Also, the Pope is obviously a baptised Catholic - duh!

But even the Pope, as a baptised Catholic, would probably agree that he isn't going straight to heaven. As a Catholic, he'd believe he'd go to Purgatory first.

Bottom line - God decides who goes to heaven. It is not ours to judge or speculate on. No one but God knows the state of any of our souls at any given time.

Posted by: anon | 04 April 2005

BTW, even though most Catholics are baptised as infants (converts are obviously baptised as adults), they are later on confirmed, which is the individual's acceptance and confirmation of the baptism he or she received as a baby.

The Catholic Church teaches something known as the baptism of desire - in other words, suppose you grew up on a deserted island and had no exposure to Christianity - you couldn't be baptised or willingly accept Christianity because you don't even know it exists,right? Well, Catholics believe that each of us, as children of God, are naturally responding to God's call to us even if we've never heard of Christianity. So, if we live our lives in response to that call, we are guaranteed a shot at salvation.

It's easy to go through the motions of water baptism and say you accept Jesus as your savior and then go out and live a decidedly unChristian life. I can't see how baptism is going to save you if you're willfully sinful and never repent.

Catholics believe that your actions have to reflect your baptism.

But don't worry so much about the Pope going to heaven. Worry about what Jesus asked of us - feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor. Love your neighbor as yourself. Find Christ in everyone you meet.

Posted by: anon | 04 April 2005

This question is a very common one, especially among european christians...

“Do you go to heaven if you are saved but not babtized?”

or: “How do you get saved?”

Prolog
First I must state sadly, Europe is the “third world” when it comes to knowing God these days…But there is hope : ) Glory to God!!!

Secondly: We are all saved in prospect on what Jesus did for us on when He died for us on the cross. But that was the hard part in the saving the world process. We don’t have to go through all that suffering and pain. Our only task is to respond to what He has allready made ready for all creation… We say simply, as a welcoming respons to His awesome invitation; “Let Your will be done…” Mat. 6;10 It’s only by grace we get saved, not in our own effort in trying to be “holy” or “righteous”. Rom. 9;16 says: “Compassion doesn’t originate in our bleeding hearts or moral sweat, but in God’s mery,”

The answer can be as simple as this: If you are saved according to Romans 10; 9 -then you are saved, and will go to heaven. This is what the bible says... lets have a look into the word of God : )

Babtizm
To be babtized is a part of a starting kit for christians if you like, called by some as “the Peter starting kit for christian life”. “Peter said, --change your life. Turn to God (the go to heaven part) and be babtized (for life here on earth), each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, so your sins are forgiven. Receive the gift of the holy Spirit.” Acts. 2;38

Read Acts. 2;37-47 and Rom. 10;9….

What we learn from the Word of God is that it's not the babtism that saves you from hell and into heaven. It prepares you for living a godly life on earth. You’ll get Jesus-kind-of-solution-abillity to always know what’s right and best for you. Jesus is allready in You before you are babtized (it happened when you accepted Him as your master), and He will continue to let you grow in wisdom and faith, and you will be able to draw closer to God during your life as a saved person. All this through The Holy Spirit. Reading the bible is a christians daily Spiritual food.

Salvation
Rom 10;9… says "The word that saves is right here, as near as the tongue in your mouth, as close as the heart in your chest. It’s the word of faith that welcomes God to go to work and set things right for us. This is the core of our preaching. Say the welcoming word to God –Jesus is my Master—embracing, body and soul, God’s work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That’s it. You’re not “doing” anything; you’re simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you. That’s salvation. Rom 10;8-9.

In short
If you are saved and not babtized, it will only affect your life here on earth -not in heaven.You will still be a christian, saved an all that, but not be able to grow in maturity by the Holy Spirit. If you are only babtized without the Rom 10;9 part, you're likely not to go to heaven.

The Dillemma…
Some would say that; “what about those who doesn’t hear what God has done, like bushmen in Arizona etc.. (‘coz Rom. 10;17 says that faith comes by hearing). How can they be saved? Look with me to Rom. 1;19-20 that says that The basic reality of God is plain enough. “Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created….So nobody has a good excuse.” The Bible has has all the nessesary answers : )

REad Rom 10;4-13 and the other scriptures I’ve used… They should be explaining, at least if you are saved your self ; ) 'coz then you will have revelation on the word of God : )

Final question… (epilog)
When you read what I just wrote…..from the Bible –Gods’ very word…..Are you saved?

Posted by: Frode | 04 April 2005

This is only my view and mostly the view of a Catholic... so i'm just telling you my side... please don't feel offeneded in anyway....

Personally i do believe that heaven exists. Ya see, in the Catholic religion you must take a "leap of faith". That means to believe it without even knowing it. More or less here's another example: If you're standing on the edge of a cliff and God said that if you jump then you can trust me that i will catch you. So, since God is (more or less) and invisible force then you can't fully trust Him...right? wrong... you take that leap of faith (believing without knowing and trusting your instinct... that little part of you that believes something will happen)... and i believe that He will catch you. I believe fully that the Pope went to heaven (maybe a few hours in purgatory of prayer and reflection, but none-the-less...) and hope that He flourishes and reapes the benefits of finally being with God.
Like i have said, this probably isn't your beliefs. This is mine along with the Catholic church... hope you understand my view...

Posted by: Wes294 | 05 April 2005

the tragedy of so many denominations in church cirlces these days (baptist, presbyterian, pentecostal... whatever) is that they all teach different things on what are, in reality minor issues (in this case, baptism).

at the end of the day, Jesus (whom christian's believe was/is God in the flesh), called us to love God and love our neighbours... in doing so we bring glory to God.

baptism in a sense is the "wedding ring" of a christian's faith. it is symbolic of our commitment and love towards God, but it is not the source of that love... not having the "ring" doesnt mean that we don't love God. and conversely, neither does having the "ring" (baptism/confirmation) mean we love God.

i know plenty of people who have been confirmed / baptised, but who do not live like they love God or their neighbours and vice versa; people who have not been baptized or confirmed but love God and their neighbours greatly.

i get the feeling God is far more concerned about how we live our lives than in the religious ceremonies we partake in, in the hopes of keeping him happy... food for thought?

Posted by: hojupom | 06 April 2005